Finlayson was damning in his assessment of Creative New Zealand saying it "needs a rocket" and has become "completely useless". Palmer stressed that reform or tinkering within the Ministry wasn't a solution, "We just need more money".
The panel clashed on issues including the need for a National Arts Strategy (which Finlayson called "an exercise in waffle"), the ringfencing of funding to lotteries and the supposed "defunding" of Shakespeare Globe Centre New Zealand.
The one area everyone was able to find agreement on was the application process for Creative New Zealand grants. The panel briefly sung with harmony while Finlayson called the application process "ridiculous" and Palmer expressed "it takes 30 or 40 hours to do an application. That's a week of work, and there's an 18% chance of success".
The panel ended in a fiery exchange which lead to both guests hanging up while on air. To hear the dramatic conclusion, listen at the media player above or on Spotify. This is the final episode of our Arts and Culture Policy radio show Election Murmurs. If you enjoyed the show, or have some feedback feel free to let us know in the comments, or by emailing email@example.com. We hope you found it useful. Now go get voting! Democracy is the new sexy.